martin swan

Not stiffness, speed of sound transmission ... Basically since the invention of the Lucchi meter everyone goes for as high a Lucchi rating as possible. Before people had Lucchi readings this wasn't an important factor in bow design

Whether a high Lucchi reading is a good thing in a bow is very much a matter of debate ...

I think that's the main problem. A432, every aspect of what you are claiming has been advocated, debated, scrutinised from every possible angle, and while Maestronet stalwarts don't necessarily agree with each other, we have discussed it to death and found a way of co-existing. Yours is an extreme position which doesn't take on board any of the extremely well reasoned points that very serious people have made in the past.

Glue joints come loose because of changes in humidity and old age - there's no need for any impact. Seams open all the time ...

Exactly - I regard you as a member of the group that advances the myth of the supernatural powers of projection of classical Cremonese instruments. To be honest this is a much bigger group than mine, encompassing almost all classical musicians and most dealers in fine violins (at least as concerns their public pronouncements - behind closed doors is a different story). My group is not scientific - it's simply made up of people who have open-mindedly sat in halls with soloists and sometimes orchestras and worked through dozens of violins in double-blind conditions trying to hear differences. When examining the subject seriously, it's clear that you need to eliminate all other variables - the player, the stage/hall, the repertoire, the bow. Unless you have been through that process of rationalisation you are just relating your impressions of a particular situation, and while these impressions are legitimate, they don't help a reasoned debate. I should point out that it's not in my interests to promote new violins, nor do I in any way denigrate the great classical Cremonese makers.

It has occurred to me in the past that a shop needs a "straw man" to sell good sounding violins, simply because people's ears are so relative and everyone makes judgments by comparison. I once bought a mint C20 Genoese violin by a maker with a great reputation. It had no strings but the price was keen - eyes too big for my head! I set it up, only to discover it was a complete lemon, with a tonal character only mildly less annoying than the sound of nails on a blackboard. So I put it into a major and very successful auction house who were delighted to have it. I went to the preview, and to my surprise discovered that in the price category (20-30k) it easily outplayed the other 10 or so instruments and sounded really well. It sold for a good price ... Context is everything. So on one level you might say that a dealer should show the best possible instruments - on another level, they should offer a buyer the means to make an informed decision. In the OP's case, I only object to the difference in price range, since offering a crap sounding violin for 3 times the client's budget is disingenuous and manipulative. Sounds like something out of Bob Bein's secret book!

This is irrelevant. You could apply this to either side of the argument. You may well be right about projection, but you are offering vague anecdotes that don't make any attempt at analysis, while some of the people who don't share your opinion have put a lot of time and effort into studying the phenomenon. But generally people who use their own names are accorded more courtesy on Maestronet that those who don't, both in the way they are addressed ad the seriousness with which their posts are considered.

Agree with all of this, but the problem is that the lower value stuff is increasingly being consigned to the "affordable" sales rather than flogged off on Ebay.

Very like Lemböck's Cannone copies, particularly the scroll. Nice violin!

Not sure if that's a serious question, but basically if you want to buy a Gragnani at auction, you're not going to find it on Ebay. Nor am I going to risk my money on anything of serious value unless I can examine it at length and play it, and be sure that it will reach my shop in one piece.

I don't think there's any need to beat about the bush. If someone's certificate is respected, then it's because their certificates are respected! Isaac Salchow and Paul Childs are both major authorities whose certificates are respected worldwide. Paul Childs is one of the foremost historians of early French bows, in particular Persoit and Peccatte, but any French bow would be flattered to have his certificate. Isaac Salchow is fast becoming one of the most respected figures in the trade, and not just for French bows. Unusually he's also very interested in 19th century German bows and will certify Tubbs and other English makers. Tarisio price history is pretty meaningless when it comes to retail values for fine certified examples, unless you also have a condition report and know the weight and length etc. also the materials.

I find this a bit "used car salesman" ... Personally I would offer a client a selection of violins within their approximate budget, and definitely not offer anything significantly more expensive, however fantastic or hellish it sounded. But like Jacob, I would be embarrassed to have a poor sounding violin in our stock, and would steer well clear of Fagnolas for that very reason.

Glad it worked for your Gillet, but allowing the buyer to set the price often works the other way. Hence the reason people pay way over a sensible retail price for a Poggi, or used instruments from new makers like Chaudiere who have a bit of a waiting list.

We get that a lot - it's pretty counter-productive.