[Low Density Spruce]

I have been to Simeon's site. What I was wondering is how does his wood compare to others like Orcas Island (Bruce Harvey) or Mountain Voice (Carson)or others? My aim is to order a number of pieces so that I can season them. Perhaps I should order one from each to see what works best. Opinions welcome.

A side note some years ago I was fairly close with a maker who knew well one of the major wood suppliers in Germany. He said that some (not all) of the wood that people thought was European was in fact from North America. I am not trying to start up anything by mentioning this other than back in the day there was a pretty significant bias against North American tonewood. The arguement being that the Cremonese did not have access to it therefore the NA wood could not be the answer to what we are all after--how to consistently make awesome sounding instruments. And yes, I personally played some Cremonese instruments that from a sound standpoint were not that great. But I have played some that were in a class of their own rarely touched by non Cremonese makers. I am not trying to sterotype and say that only Cremonese instruments are superior sounding to all others but there is a kernal of truth there.

[Low Density Spruce]

Speaking of the Cannone, a few days ago I watched a youtube vid with Eugene Fodor playing the instrument in CA. Very interesting from a number of standpoints. The fiddle sounded great as far as one can tell from the video. What a tragic figure Eugene ended up being. Got to know him a bit--one talented and crazy dude. He was really fun on a sailing boat.

[Low Density Spruce]

There are strong indications that the thick ones are original grads and the thinner ones are regraduated. I used to think that maybe the earlier ones were thin, and the later ones thick until I'd seen one from 1736 that had missed the whole regraduation frenzy (as did the Cannone) by being "under a bed" for 200+ years. It was just as thick as the late ones: a top approaching 3.4 in places and a back running generally from 3.0 or so to 6.0+mm. So now I tend to believe the story that most of them have been regraduated. Remember that even early on Paganini knew that they had been thinned, and was always looking for ones that had their original grads, but couldn't find many.

Ahh the benefits from working in a shop like B&F or your newer venture with Stephan to see legendary fiddles come across the bench...lucky you are. How did the 1736 violin sound? Was it as responsive and sound as rich as thinned examples? Difficult to compare apples to oranges but you know what I mean.

[Low Density Spruce]

Wait a minute. Could it be that this "NewNewbie" was the guy who sold me the wood

[Low Density Spruce]

Forests full of trees do not produce just one exceptional piece of wood.

Yes there is some variation, from piece to piece in the same tree, but not enough to make a huge difference.

So if a 'one-off' is exceptional, then perhaps it is not some-one-thing but a combination of things that is responsible.

How many makers has there been that reached the top of making, only to stay briefly, and then disappear due to a failure to continue to produce top quality work? By the top I mean top dollar for work.

The consistency of the making is due to a lot of hard work, sweat/thought equity. Something Science can't measure, unlike density of wood, which is relatively easy to measure.

Salve Håkedal, violin maker, Wood density calculator for rough peices

"In comparison, a 1736 Stradivari

violin top shows a spring–fall ratio

of 1:1.153 and an overall density

of -574 HU or 0.427g/cm3, which is

relatively heavy." - Path Through The Woods Sept 2005 The Strad

The real question for me is, how can a maker maximize what any given piece of wood has to offer.

Reaching the full potential is not some easy math problem, or as simple as having the lowest density wood on the block.

Nor is it as simple as following directions from a poster, otherwise we would all be Top makers.

If it was so, then you would never see makers disclosing their wood sources. Something that happens quite regular here at Maestronet.

Top makers are Hard workers and Top thinkers! .....i think??????? :blink: :unsure: :huh:

i hope I worked that one out right?

I don't think I or anyone was implying that this is as simple as a species or give type of wood. Although if you do not start with good (whatever that means...) materials, you are finished before you begin. My aim is to have a discussion of what type of top wood people are using and where you purchase that wood.

Back when I was into making, anyone who discussed (openly anyway) using anything other than European wood was a heretic. It seems that that line of thinking has gone out of favor to some extent--which I think is a good thing.

This reminds me of Formula 1 racing. You could not just put a McLaren undertray/diffuser on a Ferrari chassis with a Red Bull front wing and hope it would work to make the fastest car. That being said when McLaren developed a trick thing called an "f duct" last season all of the teams scrambled to copy it AND integrate it into their vehicles. Sorry for the F1 reference...

[Low Density Spruce]

My measurements show a slight trend toward higher damping in low-density spruce, which I believe would weaken the overtones and give a plainer sound.

Did you compare European or Sitka to the Englemann? It would be interesting to see the differences.

[Low Density Spruce]

Thanks for the responses. So low density = engelmann. It does make sense that a less dense wood would not have as much inherent dampening so the complexity of the sound might suffer.

I find it interesting when people say that del Gesu's are thick. I am not sure that this is true. I was just looking at the Biddulph del Gesu books that have measurements taken from the exhibition in the 90s at the Metropolitain Museum and some of the Strad posters/plans that I have. From what I could see the tops were all in the 2.3-3+ range. Not like the really thick French violins that need to be regraduated. Before anyone gets worked up...I am aware that most of the Strads, Guarneri and other antique instruments are not in their original state (due to Vuillaume and other shops over the years). And yes tenths and even hundredths of a mm make a difference.

Also how many wood samples from Stradivari and other great Cremonese makers have really been scientifically put to the test to quantify the properties of the wood. I am aware of Condax and a few others that had access to samples for mainly varnish and ground analysis. If there are any studies of such things anyone could point to I would appreciate it.

To me the question is would you rather have a less dense wood and work around the problems of complexity of sound or modulate a dense wood that tends to not vibrate with the freedom that wood with a lower density does. As with many things the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Perhaps that is where things beyond the wood like ground and varnish figure in to the above...which is indeed another rich topic!

[Low Density Spruce]

After a long hiatus from violin making, i've got the bug back...

Anyway, I am interested in opinions about so called "low density spruce". Is this garden variety engelmann? I realize that there is quite a bit of variation within a given species but I have noticed the term "low density spruce". Does this differ that much from others selling engelmann spruce or is it a different species?

Thoughts, opinions?

I have a stash of spruce that was purchased from a famous maker. When I asked him why he was selling this wood he said "we found something lighter".