[Il cannone]

Interesting. Mintz produces sound much like Zukermann does. Heavy slow bow. They both have a very large sound. They both tend to push an instrument more than some players. From the other videos he had two weeks to get used to the violin. I wish that my Italian was better to hear Mintz' impression of the violin on the second Il Cannone youtube vid. I did hear the man saying that Mintz and the Cannone was like Michael Schumacher with the Ferrari. I love the machine guns with the Italian police!

Seeing the conductor Yoel Levi reminds me of a summer that I spent in his orchestra with me as concertmaster. Many moons ago...

Il cannone

[Volume of top and back plates]

Does anyone have a value for the volume of a violin top and/or back? I do not currently have a top or back I can put in water. I want to be able to do a rough calculation of density.

[What's on your bench?]

I had a screw loose (not pun intended) on my Zeta midi connector. Nothing a small amount of blue thread locker won't cure.

Regraduating a viola that has a back that must be rock/sugar maple. One step short of masonite. No wonder this instrument had no depth of sound. Preparing to give my wife's old viola to a student that cannot afford an instument. Working on the belly I keep hearing Hans Nebel saying "don't take too much off to allow for shrinkage" in my head. The things we remember...

[What's on your bench?]

So where the heck are they???

Hey I didn't know that Justin Beiber played the violin too...Good use for a carbon fiber bow is to keep the groupies away

What do you think of the Barbera Pickup? I think that is what that is on the fiddle.

[What's on your bench?]

True...

But then, what would I do about my fantasy of being on stage and playing a screaming rock and roll riff on my electric violin?

And don't forget about all of the adoring fans and groupies...

Agreed. I have had a design in my head for a while but can't find the time to build it. I was impressed by a steinberger one off that would be a nice staring point. I am lucky though I have a nice zeta 5 string to satisfy the solid body requirement. Been playing with the McMillen string port for a littke midi fun.

It's all about the groupies...lol

[What's on your bench?]

Aha! So you do subscribe to low density spruce

Those snake fiddles are outrageous!

[Steps to become a world class violin dealer]

Dario had a reputation that allowed him to just appraise. Imagine that. He even made a violin or two under the watchful eye of Sacconi.

[Steps to become a world class violin dealer]

Dario D'Atilli

Charles Beare

Robert Bein

Hans Weishaar

Rene Morel

All of the above have the reputation that if you have a certificate from them it means something. With the exception of Bein (now deceased) they all have one thing in common--the Wurlitzer shop. Wurltizer had many fine instruments come through the shop. There are very few places that have the means to purchase, sell, and consign significant numbers of important instruments. That is not to say that if you go a level down you do not find some people with a good eye and have seen enough instruments.

If you really want to be world class do what it takes to get into a major shop and plan as others have said to spend decades aquiring knowledge. Outside of the rare instruments, companies like Shar have made a good business by not catering to the high end. Learn from the best in the trade and hope you get lucky. Study the mistakes (Machold). Good thing is you have time on your side.

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

Any opinions on how lightfast tea staining is?

[How does a maker sell his instruments?]

If I were in the "business" of selling my instruments. I would go locally to the music school or orchestra and get some feedback from the players. After all most players are always looking for the perfect instrument. We love to try fiddles. Even a concertmaster that has a strad might be looking for an instrument to teach with or god forbid play outside for summer gigs. Check your ego at the door and be open to suggetions. Make changes if needed. Loan your instrument to a big shot locally and hope it grows on them. The good ones have students that are good prospects.

If you have the courage enter competitions like the VSA and throw the dice. If you are amazing like David Burgess, you will be banned from competitions! A good problem to have I would think

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

When I interviewed him for an article for our local violinmakers' group (SCAVM), the topic of varnishing was about the only thing about which he preferred not to give specifics. He did, however, admit to "sometimes" using minerals in a ground, and that he used no oil in the first few things that go onto the wood.

Don is there a link to the interview?

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

ctviolin you bring up some good points. Some years ago I approached Zigy. Hope he does not mind that name but I have to think too hard on the spelling. Does he even look at online violin boards? Anyway, I asked him how long it would be for a fiddle. From what I remember it was something along the lines of two years. I asked him if I could return the instrument for a refund if I did not like it and he said sure. I kept asking myself if I wanted to roll the dice and get in line. In retrospect I should have because the instruments were MUCH cheaper then they are now. From a pure business perspective I should have. I think this was before the $130K auction of the Stern fiddle. I did not because I wanted something now. I ended up settling on a modern maker that is a great players instrument but the price has not gone up much at all...Ironic isn't it.

The book is very good because it enlightens the non making public about our little corner of the world. I have an extensive library of "fiddle" books. After being somewhat out of the making/repairing life for a while I went on an amazon buying spree. I read "The Violin Maker" in one day. I could not put it down. It was interesting from so many angles. My wife (also a player) worked with the Emerson quartet in school. I am a fan of Zigy's fiddles and a player and maker(of sorts) myself. Can you imagine a cronicle like this about Strad, del Gesu, Vuillaume, etc? (Vuillaume) "we opened the del Gesu that we got from Tarisio's estate. Unfortunately the repairman took too much from the top's upper bout in the regraduation. The violin went from stiff to hollow sounding. No matter we have a slew of Strads and Guarneri's to modernize...Besides I got one heck of a deal from Tariso's widow. All of those Christmas cards paid off".

BTW I also picked up a copy of "The Countess of Stanlein Restored". For those who do not know it is the story of Morel's restoration of Greenhouse's Strad cello. Not nearly as good of a "book" as "The Violin Maker" but a good read for us fiddle junkies.

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

Jezzupe your post above was exactly why I posted the original question. If you look back a few posts you will see i mention "the violin maker". That and I had not been too satisfied with some of my attempts in the past.

What strikes me about the book is what a brilliant way to market his instruments. I am not saying that he said "hey I am going to find some guy to write about me". Even if he did good for him. After all how can a maker sell instruments? Win as many competitions as you can. Have customers with a big name. Partner with a well known violin business. It is not just about making great looking and sounding instrumets...but yet again I am "off topic". Back to the stain.

[Low Density Spruce]

It's an estimate, on the regrad, based on the weight of the plate and the thickness. On the other ones that I built, I measured the wood beforehand using accurately cut samples. Yes, varnish would make a difference of a few percent, but that's not a huge deal.

What do you use for the volume number?

[Low Density Spruce]

Don how are you measuring density on a built violin? Wouldn't the varnish skew the results?

[Low Density Spruce]

Jezzupe nicely put. I am well aware of the blind test with Stern and Zukerman and others like it. I want to make something clear. I am not dogmatic about the ubiquitous nature of Strads and Guarneris. I have played some violins that are quite new that I would put in the outstanding sound category (Curtain, Zygmontowicz, Bellini, Becker and others). I have played a few Strads that were what I would call dogs. But the absolute best were Guarneris, Strads, and one Storioni that had the best E string I have ever played. As you say probably because they were played for a long time by good to great players. I would say that each time that I have had the opportunity to play on the expensive antique instruments part of me is excitedfor obvious reasons and because of my making/repairing background I almost wanted them to be ho hum. Additionally I knew that I was playing on instruments that I would never be able to own. I actually for a while quite going to shops or asking players if I could try their fiddles.

Perhaps to bring this topic full circle the image below might shed some light on my original question. As I understand it Curtin uses low density Engelmann (correct me if I am wrong). I have quite a bit of his old spruce. Like I said before, I asked him why he was selling this wood as most of it does not have glaring defects. He said because we (I guess he was still working with Greg Alf) found something lighter. I have tried his instruments and for the most part liked what I tried.

BTW thanks for warning me about my hands. Years ago I was working on a bass bridge. I was really going at trimming it. All of a sudden it let go and I drove a big splinter in between my fingernail and skin of my thumb. It came out ok after they cut off half of my fingernail and removed the splinter… a tad uncomfortable as you can imagine.

[Low Density Spruce]

Higher decibels only hurt people's ears more. Is the use of Low Density Spruce intended to jack up decibel levels even higher?

Jim

Unfortunately yes. When audiences are used to hearing recordings where the mike is close it creates unrealisticexpectations. Only on one occasion did I play a violin that was hard to play softly enough (due to my handywork). I was the concertmaster and the conductor was always telling me to play softer. That violin has a huge sound but hind of one dimensional. Case in point I am playing a solo with an orchestra. I can assure you that I am going after it. Comment to me from someone in the hall after the rehearsal l" you need to play out more". At that time I was playing on a nice northern italian fiddle that had all of the quality but not enough presence. Thin slab cut back... The style of teaching since Galamian is largely focused on producing a big sound.

[Low Density Spruce]

"If (as seems likely) they did not sound very special when they were first made, then following their methods (whatever you think that is) does not hold much promise for success within the lifetime of the maker... some of them will sound fabulous long after we're dead. Personally, I'd rather try to make instruments so that ALL of them sound great NOW (or reasonably soon). That is a much different problem, and I don't think can be achieved just by following what the old guys did, assuming we could even know all the details of what they did."

Don, with all due respect, the above doesn't make much sense (not any, really).

Truth is, the present has a lot to learn from the past, and how to go about making a damn good good violin is but one.

I kind of get what Don is alluding to. I have been told by very successful makers that their instrument needs to be played in. For those who have made instruments we say “of course”. But when that instrument really does not sound good from the start--there is a problem. I have read that in Vuillaume’s day he was being accused of artificially aging the wood , etc. and the instruments would lose their voice over time. I have heard this line of thinking about good sounding modern makers (Matsuda comes to mind). Interestingly enough I think Hilary Hahn plays a Vuillaume. Also Vuillaume’s instruments have seen a substantial increase in value recently. No I am not saying that ALL Vuillaume’s sound great.

Barring what I would define normal playing in (I know… define that) an instrument that is a dud from the start will stay that way unless the problems lie in the setup (bar, bridge, etc.) or it can be thinned.

We also need to keep in mind that the requirements for volume or sound projection have changed. Bigger halls require more decibels (volume). It is one thing to make an instrument that has what we would deem to have qreat color and nuance. It is another thing for an instrument have tone quality AND volume. Perhaps the 2nd generation Cremonese makers (after Andrea and Niccolo Amati) instruments responded to the changes in neck and string type (and the regraduation that people like Vuillaume did) due to lower and flatter arching. If we believe the accounts, the Stainer and Andrea Amati instruments were the ones to have. Is that because they had been played in or the their setup or sound requirements favored them?

We also have to be careful of the few and far between sources in literature that describe Strads and others as being poor sounding early on. It reminds me of Baroque performance practice. How do we know how they played during the Baroque era? Yes the setup , lower pitch and bows dictate a lot but what do we have to go on? A treatise by Leopold Mozart? It is speculation at best. FWIW I like what is going on in the neo Baroque movement.

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

You guys are too funny!

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

Off topic

My mother was English. Tea was indeed strong. Ive also heard that the colorful luthier "Nigo" Nigogosian liked Turkish style coffee. I drink strong espresso every day. Perhaps I should spill some espresso on my fiddles. Wait...I wonder if Stradivari was an espresso drinker. Eureka! I've found the secret!

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

I agree that short of empirical evidence for the ground--despite electron microscopes and spectroscopy (damn I hate it when organic compounds are indistinguishable)and old wives tales, you are right ctviolin we do need to make a choice and go with it. To me to get a good look to the overall picture; we need a proper wood color which is separate from the ground and varnish. I have found that time in the sun or a light box (I miss living in Hawaii for the sun but not the constant high humidity) sometimes does not yield what I want. I was reading the "violin maker" book about Ziggy and he uses what is called a wash that according to the author yields a cinnamon color (hopefully Marchese is not color blind--just kidding). "I washed it with a very light wash of pigment to seal it a little bit". This is before he put the ground on. This is what got my wheels turning about something before the ground was applied. Ziggys fiddles do look and sound good. My concern is that I do not want to fully seal the wood with a stain of some type because I want my ground to penetrate the wood. However the end grain absorption poses problems when using a stain. Notice Ziggy said seal a little bit. After all we should study this guy as he is an excellent maker. Besides he gets a pretty good price for his fiddles…all envious violin makers begin biting lip now

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

No one else wants to chime in???

[Low Density Spruce]

The Vieuxtemps del Gesu is at Bein and Fushi. My roomate from music school is a salesman there. I hope to get to Chicago and beg to play it. You can be sure that if I am successful I will report

[What is your favorite stain post the "tan"]

I was wondering what people like to use to give the wood additional color after the tanning process? I have tried coffee, and even a watercolor stain. Ideas?

[Low Density Spruce]

I hope he is doing well. Have not seen his name come up lately though.