scordatura
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Posts posted by scordatura
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scodatura,
If you click on the varnish system link below you will get an overview. My convictions....interesting wording....include the input I have had from makers, the scientific analysis, historical and technical writings and my own experience as a varnisher. Most important to me, though, is seeing a detail and then learning to reproduce it...preferably using the resources that were available to the classic period makers. I have a strong interest in the nature and appearance of the original varnish as it came from the hand of the maker.
Joe
Joe
I would not read into my use of the word convictions. It just seemed that you were convinced that linseed was the first application to the wood. I have considered purchasing your varnish system. I am just trying to understand what it is and why you are doing it that way. For me sound and appearance are equally important. Not saying that you are not approaching it that way but I get the impression that for some it is about how it looks. As a player who makes, I would sacrifice sound over looks. But only a tiny bit!
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Having fun reading the thread, folks... and I'm going to steer clear of the linseed thing... but just wanted to mention that I don't find that many fine old instruments that I've had apart have tops that "ring like a bell". Some ring a bit more than others, but there's a distinct "thuddy" factor present. Constantly makes me consider the ringing/damping relationship when working on them.
Well OK. What I am saying is that an instrument that is dull (too much damping?) never appeals to me. I prefer an instrument that does the work for me (rings if you will) rather than trying to get something to sound that never gets up to speed. If that makes any sense...
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Bill,
No doubt in my mind that this "first contact" varnish has a cooked oil component. All oil varnishes are vulnerable to alcohol at different phases of their life.
Joe
I am interested in your varnishing system. What are you basing your conviction on? The appearance of the wood, historical evidence, scientific evidence?
Not sure why (hunch or "prevailing knowledge") but I am hesitant for sound reasons to subscribe to the first contact being linseed. Unless it is more resin than linseed...I want my top to ring like a bell.
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well, I guess I'm not explaining myself right, because I agree with what your saying, I guess what I'm really tring to say is that when you cut a tree down, shortly there after it looses its ability to produce sugar sap and or for it to flow out. The sugar that was in the tree when it was cut will remain in the tree, no new sugar will be produced, yet none will be lost.
Well, she's a lucky girl, tell her to be careful in the water. Funny thing about the sugar industry, when I was there it was king, never seemed like it would go away, but I think HSC just shut down a little while ago.
Small world. I lived in Honolulu for six years. When I first toured a sugar mill the comment was most of the sugar industry went to the Phillipines. Similar to the Pineapple industry. Granted both industries are still there in at least in some small way. Hard way to earn a buck harvesting sugar cane...
OT Sorry - There used to be a guy who lived on the big island named Jim Robinson. He had worked in either Jacques Francasis w/Morel or at Nigos. Does anyone know what happened to him? I got to know him very well when I was playing in the symphony and had my shop there.
Back on topic. What is the problem with the Vernice Bianca as proposed by Sacconi? The albumin is a nice substance to ossify or harden the wood. Hard to remove once dried as evidenced by my door being egged for reading chamber music too late one weekend in Honolulu. It dried (water resistant) in the HI sun and was a bitch to get off the door. The honey adds a nice whetting to the wood and good color. Gum Arabic problematic for some reason?
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There are many repair threads including photos on Maestronet submitted by a number of participants and dating back several years. Try using the search function and include the information you're interested in (bass bar crack, soundpost patch, doubling, button graft, collar, back crack, cleats, etc.) and see what comes up.
If members think there is a particular thread, or threads, that might be good to include in the reference category (first subject in the forum), let me know by notifying me through the personal message function (be sure to provide the URL corresponding to the thread(s)). I will consider adding to the list based on interest and the quality of information contained.
I would also suggest using the google site search eg - keywords site:www.maestronet.com/forum
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What solvents and ratio of solid to liquid for each? I would think this would be somewhat important.
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Dear Melvin,
sorry for keeping you waiting! When I say vanish job I mean the whole thing: the ground, the varnish, the ware and the pollish - the kind of varnish job you like doing too! But still, in my opinion, the ground might be just a little more important then the other points.
Philip
Great images. Even though PGM's model is not as in vogue as some, there is something about this maker that speaks to me. Varnish, craftsmanship, etc.
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Personally I doubt that the varnish is going all the way through. I think the effect of the smoke coming from the f holes to be due to other causes. Perhaps he added somthing to the insides before he closed the instrument.
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Not out of the same pot but same method...I'm looking for a better way.
I'm liking the cello. Nice work.
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My understanding is that she was loaned a Maggini for a short time in the '90s.
That is what I understand too
There have been other things in the works but the commitment to the Vuillaume is there for the time being. -
Kudos to Joe and Bruce. It is great to see tangible info rather than the "written theory" that we frequently see around here
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I thought her violin was a Guarneri copy, why do you think it is a Messiah copy?
Also, the Stradivari Society lists her as a former recipient, they don't say which violin was loaned to her or why she's a former recipient. Does anyone know anything about this? http://www.stradivarisociety.com/recipients.php
From what I understand she is committed to the Vuillaume.
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Hillary would not be playing this violin if it were not a great fiddle. An artist of her calliber would have access to Strads and Guarneris etc. for purchase or loaned to her. I have played a number of Vuillaumes over the years and found the spectrum of one or two that were exceptional and some that were ok and a couple that were "what is the big deal about this violin". Have not played that one.
Vuillaumes have taken a pretty big jump in price of late. Is this because the big Italian makers are getting REAL expensive or is it because she plays a Vuillaume? My take on it is mostly yes for the former and to some degree the latter.
I just met today a violinist (Paganini competition winner) who plays a Peresson. He said he used to play a del Gesu for a while and had no problem giving it up for the Peresson. I have another friend (principal second violin in a second tier orchestra) who owned a nice Peresson from the 70s (supposedly a good era) and sold it because he found it lacking. Go figure...
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What are peoples opinions on the source of the color of the ground? Is it inherent in the ingredients or something added to create the color? I know that some are using shellac but if we subscribe to the notion that the cremonese were not using shellac what is yielding the gold/honey color?
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There is no risk if you hold it right.
I have done this by hand. I feel that this is a better way...more control.
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Thanks for those pics, yours seems easier to make than the one pictured in the book. Do you plane on the right-angle side or on the angled side of the bridge? I only ask because I thin the W/S books jig has the bridge seat angled and the sides square to the jig.
I'm sure that I eventually will get to the point where I could hand-hold an bridge for planing, but I need to keep all my fingerprints for the time-being.
I'm also making the bass bar planing jig and the fingerboard jig too. I also think I'll give wire bridge holder and soundpost/bass bar gauge a try too. Great book!
I always plane on the angled side of the bridge. I would not advise hand holding the bridge. Not worth the risk.
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Bridge Planing Holder Jig
My jig a la Weisshaar is as follows:
8cm length
4.5 cm wide
The wedge is 4mm at the thick end tapering to .5mm at the top.
I used ebony for the sides/holder for more strength. I usually plane side to side then at an angle from the center out. I want it to be slightly thicker in the center. Hard to describe with words.
I have a stepped undercut at the top and at one of the sides. I was thinking I should do both sides...
Hope this helps a fellow CT maker.
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Does anyone have high resolution images or links to high resolution images of Petrus of Mantua violins? I did a quick search on google and did not find anything spectacular.
This summer I may be able to provide some as a friend owns a Petrus.
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Mike,
I've seen one, up close and personal, in artificial and natural light. It was a Peter Guarneri of Mantua, and of ALL these fellas, his finish has become my favorite.
As far as I'm aware, Peter was heavy with the ground coat (lots of it, with a thin wash of intense color applied over top). As for appearance, I'd liken the effect of his ground coat to that of a cat's eye stone (providing a deep, translucent, scintillating effect to the wood). It was gorgeous.
Chris
I can second the opinion on Petrus of Mantua. I have seen two Petrus' of Mantua and one in particular had varnish to die for. I had the violin for a day and could not stop looking and marveling at the varnish, color, ground etc. I wish I had taken photos of that fiddle as example of what to do with the finish and ground.
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I've heard it said that identical refractive index promotes transparency and the throwing about of light - but I'm not convinced; Lay on a lead silicate and you'll have questions...
Why don't we all use wetting agents?
I think the concept is to allow transparency. The ground should not obscure the wood.
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My ground criteria are:
Refractive index similar to wood
Strengthens wood
Minimal Damping
Penetrates wood
Golden Color
Allows varnish to adhere (or not if you want the varnish to chip off if you want the instrument to look old at some point down the line)
Stabilizes the moisture content of the wood
Isolates varnish from wood
Good surface "wetting" properties so that the grain is enhanced
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Thanks very much, scordatura.
Here's some interesting bowmanship by Zukerman & Perlman Funnin' Around.
Jim
Yes I have seen that. Wonderful to see those guys in such fine form and so much younger.
Interesting to note Perlman who is more horizontal than Pinky tends to play Strads. Pinky likes Guarneris.
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scordatura,
For uptempo passages, I notice he moves the bow nearer the ff upper eyes. For slower passages, he's closer to the bridge. Is that pure 'Galamian', or Mintz's own distinctive flair?
Thanks,
Jim
Yes it is easier to play fast passages away from the bridge. At the bridge likes high vertical force (pressing if you want) and a slow bow speed (sonority). Playing fast passages tends to like a lower sounding point (where you are playing on the string relative to the bridge/fingerboard) in this case toward the fingerboard. Much of this goes on automatically with great players.
Look at the way for instance Josh Bell plays. He has a lighter style/sound than Mintz. He tends to use more bow speed and less pressure than Mintz or Zukerman. He tends to play more in the upper half a la Gingold. Mintz and Zukerman are what I call vertical players (heavy slow bow) while Bell and say Milstein are/were horizontal players (bow speed over weight)
I was lucky to work with Gingold for a bit and watched Josh as a teenager in action. It was remarkable to me how different Ginglold's bow arm was than the Cerone (Galamian) approach that I was used to. Gingold did not have a big sound. He had all of the elegance you could ever want. He played on an Amatise Strad which also did not have a gigantic sound. Gingold was awesome. Beautiful person. Studied with Ysaye. Sorry if I am going on a bit.
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Playing near the bridge is an outgrowth of the Galamian school. For those who have the privledge of standing in front of an orchestra to play concertos know that all of the colors or notes mean nothing if you can't be heard over the orchestra.
There have been other things in the works but the commitment to the Vuillaume is there for the time being.
Lightbulb jokes, here's mine
in The Pegbox
Posted
Q. How many Juillard students does it take to change a light bulb?
A. 1 and 99 to say they could do it better...