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Everything posted by francoisdenis

  1. Hi ken I have had a look to your drawing and I see than you came across some problems with the construction of the corners... As much I can see it's not possible to achieve a good tangency of the curves in the "C" bout using this process . You don't seem to use the correct construction. all the best Fd
  2. Hi Dean No problem with english.... your are too kind with me Dean but I thank you for the support FD
  3. David First, if one adheres to principles, It would be better to check that they are the good ones. To be sure that they are correct you need to study them and assess their strength according to the rigor of a demonstration. Secondly, I will say that the question of the "incentive to embrace principles" is a different one because it does not relate to the truth of these principles but rather to a personal situation . So, if I affirmed that geometrical principles are useless to me, I would say nothing of their historical veracity.
  4. Hi Jim The ancient craftmen have always distinguished the ability to draw a template and its use. The template is supposed to represent perfect form (ideal / divine ...) necessarely, implementation will deviate from this ideal (even Vituvius complains of the worker's laxity in the use of the template!). I think that the Amatis have participated in developing the models then Stradivarius did mostly many empirical interpretations of these models. Actually, such a scheme of the creation and variation of the form can be found everywhere. The violin is just another illustration of this principle. FD
  5. possibly "architecture concepts" doesn't work in english . " concepts" is enought..
  6. I arrive late in this topic just to remind that the full title of my book is "Treaty of lutherie, the violin and the art of measurement". In fact, the central subject of my book is "the art of measurement" and because I am a luthier, I used the violin as an illustration of this art. the art of measurement is quoted by various authors to the Renaissance (such as Dürer). Like other "arts" (as "the art of memory" read about the book from France YATE) this practice finally disappears during the seventeenth century. I took pleasure in doing this research and am happy it makes debate among luthiers and hopes that eventually it will reach an audience of researchers in the field of art history, science and technology. I would like to say it is obvious that certain aspects of the violin can not be understood outside the context of the time of his invention. One of these is precisely the relationship between mathematics and aesthetics. This link exists during the Renaissance for logical reasons that are related to the definitions of Quadrivium (arithmetic, music, geometry and astronomy). Note that the concept of measurement used (both by the artisan and the philosopher) is then based on an architecture concepts radically different from ours. By nature the concept of number at that time, is based on a philosophical question attached to the essential nature of being. For this reason, and for that reason alone, it seems natural to make a connection between measurement and aesthetics. But this approach is strongly debated during the seventeenth century. A dispute called "the quarrel between the ancients and moderns". We're definitely part of the modern, for which the relationship between aesthetics and mathematics no longer exist in the logical sense. So in summary, the appreciation of the relationship between the number, measure and aesthetic depends on your definition assigned to each of its terms. Only that. Please apologize my english. and thank you pay attention to my work Francois Denis
  7. thank you for the explanation (i m not at ease with the english...)
  8. You are right, the B serie bears the straight line on the mold too (not the "S" s i said previously) but you frequently find violins obviously made on a "P" form which have this feature which doesn't exist on the form.
  9. thank you to read me, difficult task i known...
  10. Hi David Few years ago when I was writing my book Patrick Robin and I have had many questions about this little straight line. It's a very interresting aesthetical and historical point.For example I had been surprise to notice that on the oldest drawing of a scroll we have (a roman archeological testimony) the tangency between the arcs are imperfect. Actually it's always aesthetically interresting to let a little gap between two arcs rather than to be exactly tangent because doing that way you can easely soften the line. Notes that the question is not to draw or not the line but to known how and when this straight line appears. You notice a straight line on the profile OK; but, what is your conclusion whether you notice that this straight line partly disappears on the rib structure and doesn't exist on the original form ? After many debates with my collegues, my conclusion has been to remain as close as possible of the inside mold thinking that most of time the straight line come from the bending of the ribs.
  11. Hi To known whether you have to draw the outline of the mold or the oultline of the violin you have to study the consistance of the measurements rather than the consistance (or symetry) of the profils. On that topic it's interresting to compare the amati's production with the Brescian production. I did this job for the book about the Brescian school. It appears that the measurements of the Brescian instruments a very consistante (I mean "proportional")if you considere the outline with the edge rather (ouside of the form) than in Cremona, you have a better result whether you considere the inside form. There is an interresting clue of that issu which is the "standart" measurement of the viola, I mean the original metrological measurement which usely is the maximum widht as starting point of the proportionnal construction. You find that this measurement of reference is the same in Brescia and Cremona (237-238 mm) with the result that the viola made with this reference in Cremona are slightly wider than in Brescia.
  12. That's true there is often a straight line just before the corners but most of time it's not true anymore if you considere the rib structure rather than the outline. Furthermore this straight line doesn't exist on the violin's wooden form (excepted on the "S" serie). So, this straight line is probably a result of the making process of the rib structure. Notice that this feature (I mean the straight line) increases during the late cremonese periode (after 1750)and trend to become "too much" at the end. That's also the time when all the "orginal" forms disappered and that's a clue that makers start to copy their forms from existing violin (rather to drawn them), with the result to increase the tendancy to get a line more straight than the form itself. FD
  13. Il semble qu'il y ait ici quelques initiés- par courtoisie essayons d'être explicite
  14. Hi Catnip I met Geoffroy several times and I notice that our approaches of the drawing differ. Geoffroy try to find a tool for himself to be able to drawn a violin following his own idea of this topic but he is not concern by any historical justification. At the opposite , I'm very interessted in history, organology...The glossary of my book resume the meaning of my work, if you master it some curiosities of the way of mind of the past become obvious. For example you can explain why geometry and measurement were two synonymes during the Renaissance or why the unit was not a number. Actually I studied the concept of the measurement and explained its relation with the concept of geometry. The simplest analogy is that measurement were like a musical scale, a way to produce an infinity of variations made at the image of the nature. francois
  15. Hi Matthias Your drawing looks correct , It's a good result with the only help of the book. Don't worry, it's not necesary to understand the theoritical part (the yellow pages )to be able to draw a violin.. francois
  16. Hi I'm François denis and author of the traite de lutherie.I'm a new member and I log in this forum right now . Let me seize this opportunity to inform you that my book is still availlable. You can get a copy on the web site