
baroquecello
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Posts posted by baroquecello
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This bass bar crack was clearly caused by impact on the bridge, the bridge foot breaking and then exerting pressure on only one side if the foot, thus causing the wood to crack very locally. Nothing is visible in terms of arching deformation, which usually is part of the cause of bass bar cracks (which usually are on the bass side of the bass bar and not on the treble side of the bar). The crack looks clean, and it looks to me as if the rest of the wood along the bass bar is in very good shape and I would never expect the crack to become larger than it is by itself. It seems to me that with a properly done bridge, the crack is perfectly closed. Do you really feel this kind of crack requires more than just careful glueing from the outside? Am I missing something?
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While 2500 is little money for a decent sounding cello, it is possible to find something that will be enjoyable to play (I'm thinking purchasing price 2500$ and then adding another 500~800 for a good setup). I've seen a Yitamusic best model cello of the Montagnana model that did have this boomy sound and sounded quite good generally. There are lucky instances. But instruments always need a proper setup to sound good, and cheap instruments never have that straight from the producer.
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Rostanvo is a british brand. I've had mixed results. If the work on the cello, they are good. There is a bit of "pitch bending" on particularly the c string.
I don't think the booming sound he was talking about can be replicated with certain strings. It is in the instrument, and either t is there or it is not.
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I'm hesitant to post as it may sound unfriendly, but then you are asking for an opinion, and honesty is what brings us most, I think. Please don't take it too hard!
If it can all be stripped off, then I'm for a whole revarnish. The woodwork I see is ok, but the varnish not. Also not on the back. It is uneven, and doesn't seem to do much with light, it looks "flat". The color is, to me, an unpleasing yellow and grey. I'm a player, and I'd not buy this violin, even if it sounded good.
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I'm an equipment freak and very interested in gut strings. I have no idea what this is.
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Well, I'm a public transport user exclusively, and while travelling by train and tram on the last day before Christmas holidays, something must have hit my end pin screw. I was using a soft cello case, with the end pin protruding out so it doesn't damage the zipper. Somewhere on the way, my super expensive mitsuke triple brilliante (they retail for 480 Euros here) pin fell out of the bung, without me noticing. Yuck. Its gone.
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2 hours ago, deans said:
I'm thinking american church bass, close enough to cello dimesions.
Just what I was thinking. Obviously made by a skilled woodworker, but not a lutier in the european tradition. Are those symbols maybe something from freemasonry?
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Metal winding - silver on higher end bows, silver plated copper on lower end - has been the standard thing to do for a long time. Silk winding has been coming in vogue a bit more, and I believe it stems from early music bows. Such bows are usually unwound, and many players want an unwound feeling, but a somewhat better grip and protection of the wood. There are bow makers that say metal windings have a negative effect on the sound of a bow, and should only be used on bows that need it for balance. There exist silk windings wrapped in silver tinsel in order to lower the weight and the supposed negative effect of metal winding.
In short, if you want to conform to classical standards which most professionals are used to, silver is the way to go. If you like to do something frivolous, then do whatever you like.
Think of the fact that silver winding will not only make a bow a little heavier, but can also shift the balance point somewhat. There are several things you can play with what that is concerned. It is possible to stop the silver winding right at the start of the leather wrapping, or you can continue all the way under the leather. If you stop early, another option to lower weight is to make the leather a little broader.
I'm a cellist and not a maker. I dislike the winding because it always gets damaged in the long run. With the classical short leather, my index finger rests on the silver and the silver get eaten though rater rapidly. Every once in a while I do a carelss bow stroke and hit the end of the silver winding, sometimes damaging it. So, I get a very wide leather of a good quality, and have just a short silver tinsel wound silk for decorative purposes behind that. This is a very durable solution that easily resist 30 hours of teaching and 12 hours of practise a week for two or more years, before it needs replacement.
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Just so you know my background: I'm a player and not a maker, and I have a degree in HIP with baroque cello as main subject. I teach a lot of children and often come across 1/8 celli and up in size. What works well on a 4/4 is not always what works well on small celli, and I don't have any experience whatsoever with Violoncelli da spalla. If you are happy with the sound, don't change it.
The bridge to my eye is Stradivari cello bridge inspired. Those are somewhat more similar to violin bridges, compared to more recent cello bridge models, because of the relatively short legs and the amount of wood above the heart. Because of that, there just is much more wood on those bridges than was standard a little later in celli. I don't know what Hoffmann or the german makers at the time would have chosen as a bridge model. Unfortunately, such things have not been properly studied, as far as I know at least. But that also gives you some freedom to experiment. On a cello like this, changing otherwise nothing of the model, I'd expect the bridge to be a little thinner on the whole. Or if you keep this thickness, then I'd take away wood between the heart and top, and/or think of lengthening the legs a little (thereby reducing the amount of wood above the heart and kidneys). I'd think of drastically reducing the width of the wood on the protruding outer "legs" next to the kidneys (I just realised I don't know what those are called in english). Just anything really to somewhat reduce mass should make the instrument open up some. (My gut feeling is, thinner is not going to work as well as the other changes I proposed.) Now the question is if that is good. Often, smaller instruments lack depth in sound, or sound uninteresting or shrill, and more wood on the bridge can have surprisingly good effects in those cases. But if the sound is small or muffled, these are the things I'd try out.
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I agree with @Violadamore. Very attractive looking instruments!
I am wondering if the setup is optimal. On larger Cellos, I usually get better sound from the lower two strings if the tail cord is short. It also looks to me as if your model could work well with the bridge a little lower on the table than the f-hole nicks. And the bridge looks a bit massive for the instrument. But as with all setup questions, it is a matter of taste, and there aren't universal rules that work for every cello. Maybe this is in fact the best setup for this cello.
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Strange or wild Flame patterns are often used on inferior instruments to make them look impressive. I would not expect much from the instrument on your photo, for instance.
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30 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:
It isn't really ethical to post pictures of a violin that you don't own without the owner's permission.
That really depends on the context. A privately owned instrument, I agree with you. When it is about a commercially sold instrument, particularly one from a line of instruments, ask yourself if you'd find it unethical if someone posted a picture of the second hand car from the dealer around the corner, in order to get some info on current market prices. Would you find this unethical? I wouldn't. I'd find it unethical if a dealer were trying to sell a violin as something it isn't. Which I'm certainly not saying is the case here, but which I've experienced with certain local dealers I no longer send my pupils to, and it is good that I did this, because discovering it later would have been bad indeed. I particularly remember an 800 Euro Markneukirchen going for 8000 Euros, which was a sale I managed to prevent through unethical photo sharing. I think I did the most ethical thing possible.
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Although it could be from anywhere from the last 25 years, to my eye it looks like a modern Chinese instrument of a somewhat higher quality. This kind of antiquing is practiced there a lot and it is original to the instrument. Do not try to improve it, as you'll diminish the value of the instrument.
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This is what I found using your description. That is an ugly very cheap nitro spray varnished VSO. Either The violin in the ad is a face, or your violin is something else.
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@John Alexander you mentioned it isn't very valuable, so I googled it. Indeed, such a violin is not valuable, but are you certain that that is what you have there? at least on your pictures, I see what looks like a much better violin than the one I found when googling....
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Looking at your setup, which actually looks potentially quite good, I'd try one of those fine tuners for an e string with a ball, as it is heavier and larger (shortens the afterlength!) and very cheap to try out, and possibly also fit one for the a string (although it may not be so appropriate for a gut string). And I'd try a side mounted chin rest. There are those that say side mounted chin rests almost universally improve sound on violins (I believe @Don Noon said so once, can you elaborate, Don?). The mute helps, of course, but it looks a bit clunky. If you've got a kevlar tail cord, change it for a sacconi type. All of those things are easy and cheap and reversable, and, save for the tail cord change, anyone can make those changes by themselves without the help of a lutier.
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Good practise for joining plates!
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First thing to know: if you buy online, you can be practically certain that the instruments you get will need their setup worked on to at least some degree. This can only be done by an experienced Luther. This is possibly why the stentor in the shop are more expensive: they may have gotten their setup improved.
That said, I would advise you not to buy without the help of an experienced player. Best: first months just rent an instrument
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I think you probably mean something else by resonant than I do, because I like resonant. Maybe there is too much sympathetic sound coming from parts of the string that isn't played?
If I'd want to get less response from a Cello, I'd look into things like the tail cord (use gut or sacconi instead of a steel wire or Kevlar chord), try different tail piece sizes and weights (bigger and/or heavier, aluminum or wod instead of synthetic materials, or a Wittner with built-in fine tuners, or add fine tuners to all strings if it already is a wooden TP), or tp placement (closer to the bridge will dampen the sound more). You could get a somewhat meatier bridge made, or one made of less hard wood (actually lower quality). You could look at the SP position (with too much resonance, possibly it is somewhat far south and somewhat loose). You could try out what higher tension striings do to the instrument (often makes it more brilliant, which may feel as if it is somewhat less resonant). Sometimes simple things like leaving the mute on the string afterlength (a rubber tourte mute) helps. You could try a Krentz sound modulator, see what that does for you. On a violin, I'd experiment with different chin rests (different sizes and weights, side mounted or block mounted etc etc). There is an awful lot that might have an effect. All of it is hit and miss; you have to try out to know if it'll do anything at all.
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4 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:
"... when a certain Mr. Haydn invented the string quartet, which caused the violists to do some serious practice."
While we do not know who "invented" the string quartet, Scarlatti wrote some before Haydn was even born (he died 7 years before Haydns birth), so Haydn certainly didn't. Nor was he the first to treat the viola equal to the other string instruments in virtuosity. Alessandro Scartlatti - Quartetti senza Cembalo.
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Before starting a new thread I thought I'd continue this one. I've read all the above, including the linked other thread. I Wondered if anyone here has ever bid on an instrument online only. I find the pictures to be rather uninspiring and too few. No pictures of the ribs, no close ups of damage. Also the description is very brief. I'm guessing that it is not really thought for bidding online only. Do they answer question to secific instruments and do they provide extra photos? Specifically, if it stays cheap enough, I'd gamble on lot 625. It says there is worm damage, I see two holes in the scroll, hich doesn't scare me that much, but the pictures are not good enough to distinguish anything regarding the sound bow of the cello, and without this info, the gamble is too big for my taste...
edit note: unfortunately, my french is rudimentary at best.
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I'm only a Cellist with a degree in performance practise and not a bass expert at all. However, I think the problem is that the lower instruments especially, were constantly improved and changed, and I don't think you will find a clear cut answer. Many violones in the da braccio style had only three strings until well into the nineteenth century, however, you'd find da gamba style basses with 6 strings, or things in between with four or five strings with differing intervals between them. A popular viennese tuning for four strings around the end of the 18th century has a whole slice of Repertoire for it (Sperger being the biggest exponent). If you can find an original 4 string bass with similar vibrating string length that you can copy that would of course be great, but otherwise my gut feeling is just to not stray too far from current standards and make the optics fit. I know many bassists that play on practically modern instruments with baroque gut strings, and call it done.
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As a player, I'd hold absolutely nothing against them, or any alternative material, as long as it plays well and is appropriately priced. If anyone want to sell a cello bow of this type, I'd be potentially interested.
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Wow, I got more than I wanted, even if not the answers I was hoping for. Thank you for all the responses.
What I currently do when refurbishing old gouges and chisels that are rather abused is to do the rough work eyeballed with a standard high speed dry grinder. I found out that wetting the tool prior to and during grinding helps prevent heating up to some degree and manage to get relatively ok shapes, that I can then refine using dry and wet stones and Veritas jigs. However, I dislike working with wet stones because of the mess they make, especially when doing several tools, and the time it takes for them to properly soak up enough water beforehand and to clean up and dry afterwards. I also find one has to straighten the rougher stones again rather soon. And lastly the Veritas jigs make it impossible to use the whole stone (unless one makes a "container" for each stone, which has an edge that is level with the stone, which I havent). I would like to replace the finer grinding with a Tormek (or equivalent), so that there is less of a mess, but still a good result. When working with stones the Veritas jigs for straight blades like chisels, don't work for round tools such as gouges, and these always remain very much of an eyeballing job. The results are ok for those too, however, as I understand it, the Tormek system has jigs that make precision easy also for gouges. I also like Tormeks T8 for the mirror side of old tools, which often need a lot of precision work that doesn't go so well with my dry grinder and is much too time consuming using stones, because the surface of the mirror side is large. I know one could leave the mirror side just sort of ok and do a slight back bevel instead, but I like a totally flat mirror side, which is then good for (almost) all eternity.
I must say gettting one of the better quality dry grinding wheels does seem attractive, I'll look into that some more. Although I will need to make my own jigs or keep trying to improve eyeballing. Hmm.
Nobody seems to have any experience with Tormek knock-offs. I'll either have to take the plunge with those and hope for the best, or get a Tormek. Hmm.
moitessier violin or didier nicolas aine
in The Pegbox
Posted
It would be interesting to know what legal basis they believe they have, with which they can shut you up. It sounds more like a baseless threat to me. And it is working, as you are not expressing your opinion.