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NewNewbie

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  1. Thanks The 9 mm measurement would get you in the ballpark, but not in your seat. Perhaps it was an oversight, and these two measurements failed to get listed in appendices2.
  2. Sorry but can you help clear up some confusion? Is that Lex Luthier or Lex the Luthier?
  3. 110 mm wide that goes down to a thin acute edge is too tight ..... ..... but you can take the extra wood from the Upper bouts or CC-bouts after cutting the outline, and glue 'wings' onto the Lower bouts, widening and thickening your plate, using the same exact matching wood. No adverse sound effects, and done well, almost impossible to spot. If you look close enough at old instruments, you will see these 'wings' being used all the time when good wood was not wide enough.
  4. Good point David! A very 'common sense' approach! Oh and what tool would you recommend using for this job??? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Or would you consider this tool to be too underpowered for this job?
  5. Can you list what are the numbers for the difference in E and G scoops that Roy gives? I don't have the book.
  6. My guess is that Karl Roy does not give numbers for the amount of scoop under the strings, but following the 41.5 mm radius template at each end, with 5.5 mm edges, and 9 mm middle thickness accomplishes the same thing.
  7. Appendices2 fom Karl Roy's book reads "Thickness: End of Neck" 4/4 violin as 9 mm. This strikes me as being the end of the neck where it meets the neck root. So you end up with a measurement somewhere between the Nut end and the Bridge end of the fingerboard. This would mean that the measurement would be taken very close to the middle of the fingerboard.
  8. You might find reading the articles that Roger Hargrave has written on the subject of Cremonese making techniques to be helpful. The Working Methods of Guarneri del Gesù and their Influence upon his stylistic Development by Roger Hargrave As for why the conclusion that the purfling came after the plates were attached to the ribframe, you only need to try using pins to attach your plates, like Stradivari did. The Lady Blunt Stradivarius 1721
  9. Congratulations! Any chance of seeing pictures of the two instruments? Thanks!
  10. More than one way to get the job done, and there are many different styles of players. ctviolin points out a good point, and for people just starting out, it is the fast road to success. Experience is important in this game, and getting as much as you can, and as best as you can, will pay off dividends later on in making. SO the question begs, which piece of wood will be the most forgiving? The less dense, or the more dense? VMAAI
  11. Thanks Ernie for all your work! A very helpful post. I hope the neck is better!!!
  12. Imagine a boring job, and along comes a double bass. Come on, back in the coffee room you now have an interesting story to tell. Meanwhile while you were shaking down the person with the instrument, 9 drug mules walked by your station, and a couple of illegals. All in,or not in, a days work, or should that read play. The really exciting days are when you get to tasser a senior citizen. Now wait til you get back to the coffee room with that story. Now all this has been 'in jest', but whatever you do when traveling, do not crack any jokes, or think these border people are in anyway there to have fun, with you. Keep it serious and to the point, business like, have your paperwork ready at all times. Because a little power in someone's hands, can be made to extract maximum pain, when left unchecked. So if the Yankees lose the night before you travel to N.Y.C. and you fly in the next day, best to wear a black armband. You never know how much money they dropped on a booted ball by Jeter.
  13. Glad to hear that you are going to hang in there and complete your cello. Seeing that you have the Rib-Frame complete .... I think you can play a game of "give n' take" like you say in your opening post. The main goal being Keeping the String Length as close to standard as possible. So the problem as you point out is that your lower F-holes look disconnected to the outline, since they are too far away from the corners. ======================================================================================================== Bringing Edge Outline Closer Since your top plate outline is not finished/finalized, there may be a couple of millimeters that you can gain by slightly reducing the overhang in the lower corners, to help bring the outline closer to the lower F-hole eyes. Knick Bridge Relationship It is not uncommon to find in very old cellos that have no standard 400 mm stop length the F-hole knicks not aligning with the middle of the bridge feet. So if you can have the bridge feet not centered on the knicks, then you gain another couple of millimeters. I would not over do this too much. Perhaps placing the knicks just 1 mm off center with the F-hole design will make things appear less displaced. Edge F-Hole Distance The distance that the lower f-hole eye is from the edge is somewhat flexible too. The Library of Congress has a picture with measurements of the 1699 Castelbarco Stradivari cello. Clicking on 'Zoom' bottom left lets you zoom in. Top left corner of the picture has the + and - zoom features and a [ ] full page feature which will really let you see things close. Stop length to the F-Hole knicks is 419 mm bass side, and 420 mm treble side, and you can see where the feet of the bridge have left impressions. They are well above the F-hole knicks. In the picture you can see marked : The distance of "32.8 mm to outside" and "24.4 to inside black" are marked on the lower bass F-hole eye. The distance of "34 mm to outside" and "25.7 mm to inside black" are marked on the lower treble F-hole eye. (Note that these are large measurements, since this is a large sized cello. Your gaps/distances will be less.) I am not sure what distances you have, but you can see that Stradivari had a couple of millimeters variance here. Slanting F-Holes So maybe you have room, before getting too close to the purling/outside edge to slant the F-holes more, so they look like they are more connected to the edge visually. Take your F-hole pattern and make separate stand alone F-hole patterns, as cutouts. This will allow you to temporarily place them on the plate you have. Mark where the finished edge in the lower C-bouts will be, and try seeing how they look. Roger Hargrave gives an explanation in his papers on Del Gesu about how he varied his F-holes. This is where you can possibly gain another more couple of millimeters. "Arching and Thicknessing The soundholes and the Bassbar" by Roger Hargrave, from page 40 or so onwards, with page 43 showing the F-hole play/variation techniques. If you shorten the F-holes a little, try to open/widen them up a little to keep the same air volume. Avoiding Too Much Slant, But Still Widening F-Hole Stance Try making the lower wing on your F-hole template a little wider, the upper wing a little narrower, so the F-holes will still be fairly upright in their connecting shafts. This way the F-holes will connect-up in the lower regions better to the purfling and edge outline, yet the F-hole s themselves will not get too slanted/splayed-out. This helps to maintain the F-hole shafts in their relation to the arching. Here is where having free moving separte F-hole templates help when you place them on your arched top plate. Side View of 1699 Castelbarco Stradivari Cello Once again click on 'Zoom' in the bottom left of the page, and you will be able to see the side view of how the F-holes lay in relationship to the arching. Top left corner of the picture has the + and - zoom features and a [ ] full page feature which will really let you see things close. Since your arching is not finished yet, you can play with the C-bout arch a little if you have to, to keep the F-holes when viewed from the side, laying correctly on the arch. Here is where having the ability to temporarily tack individual F-hole templates will help with a side view visual. Stradivari drew the Rib-Frame outline and layed out his F-holes. Try this too, since the distance from the rib outline is what matters. Just trace your ribframe C-bout section on a piece of paper. The diagram is on page 40 and 41 of Roger Hargrave's article. See Figure 37. You need to draw out figure #37 with your Rib-Frame as the outline. Here is a thread called ""Dashed line" F holes violin Stradivari (According to Sacconi)" see post #9 for links to articles. These articles show F-hole layout which will show you how to play with things, as there is some 'Free Play' here that you can make work for you. ============================================================================================================= So everything being done, slight lowering of knicks, slight knick bridge placement adjust, F-hole length and width, F-hole placement, edge overhang reduction, are all working towards having a Standard String Length, and having the F-hole married-up/looking right with the outline edge. Now how close can you get things back to looking normal after all this playing around???? Do you have the Standard String Length and the F-holes looking better? Do things look acceptable? Should certainly be less than 1 cm.
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