Guy_Gallo
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Posts posted by Guy_Gallo
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Jeffrey,
What might t signify, perhaps in term of sate, that this has the Retford tip mark and also shows the drill marks?
Guy
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Thanks all. I think having one custom made is the way to go.
Guy
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Sorry to be so long in replying. I've been snowed under recently.
Yes, it does have retford's engraved single dot on the tip.
There is no dot on the frog. There is a letter K which is repeated on the stick.
-Guy
Quick question. Does that bow bear Retford's mark at the tip facing (an engraved dot)? If so, the mark is often repeated on the unlined area of the the tortoise frog. Unusual to see drill marks in the mortise left by that maker. From what I understand, he used to have a bit of a thing about that, especially when Napier Sr. did it (the story goes that Napier did it to piss-off Retford). As far as I know, Napier Sr. did not otherwise mark his work (the younger Napier used a floral mark).
Cheers!
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I have a gorgeous Hill Bow by William Retford. I am thinking of getting am ebony frog to replace the original both to preserve the original and to make it possible to travel with the bow.
The bow probably dates from 1910-20.
Questions:
Anyone have a Hill ebony frog from that era they'd like to sell?
The tortoise is unlined. Would an ebony from that era be unlined?
If I have one carved, should I have it unlined?
Can an off the shelf silver fitted frog be made to fit this channeled stick? (see attached image)
Thanks,
Guy
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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I do recall somewhere along the road being told that the Hill's would use metal inserts as reinforcement for the tortoise frogs they were making.
I have a Retford Hill bow that I just had re-haired and it had a bit of metal re-inforcing the area where the plug/ferrule go. It is also unlined on the top.
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Bump.
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When I got this violin there were patches under the bridge and on the upper treble side that were nearly to bare wood.
Those places were touched up and the whole thing French polished.
I don't think the entire top was re-varnished.
Here is a comparison. The difference in color is more to do with lighting than the restoration. The before was incandescent, indoors. The restored top is in sunlight.
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As the composition of the forum has changed since last I posted this question, I thought I'd do so again.
I'd love to hear thoughts regarding the region/period for this violin.
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Thanks Jacob,
The scroll has a very poor cheek patch (which may be why it seems itself to be a composite). It has patches on both sides, but one side is markedly more amateurish than the other. So it looks like it was done at another time. Under UV light there are at least four distinct varnishes -- the back is pretty consistent save for an area around the button. The scroll has three -- the base dark red and each of the patches. And the front two -- the main body and what was added in retouch.
I don't have any photos of the inside construction if that's what you mean.
I suspect you are right it will never yield to ID. Though I am surprised that those honking big f-hole wings have not rung a bell with someone. They are pretty distinct.
But it's a beautiful player.
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It may look like he redid the entire top, but I don't think that's the case. I believe the parts worn raw were touched up and then the whole thing was "french polished" a bit.
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Having spent my childhood growing up in an english violin making household and all my adult life working in Germany or Austria, I have often noticed that the English, when they can`t place a fiddle, say "it`s German (Austrian)", and the Germans/Austrians say "it`s English". I had thought that, by now, I must have seen all the 18th. C. Viennese makers, even if I do have diffuculties telling them apart.
I have no stake in it being Viennese. It seems that the ribs, scroll and back are by one hand and the top another.
I'd love to hear any thoughts on either one.
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"frankenfiddle" looks like it has had some quite recent addition of varnish, whats with that?
Here's the fiddle before given to a luthier to clean and restore. The varnish had been worn nearly off in two spots.
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Did he say what on earth is Viennese about the back?
Nope. Realize this was not a certificate appraisal, but a verbal assessment if such a cert was even possible. I think he was more interested in the other violin I had with me (a Voller) for which he did write a cert.
Still, that was his suggestion suggestion. I'm open to others. What's it look like to you?
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The violin in this gallery has been deemed a composite by Beare. 18th c Viennese back and 19thc Italian front was his guess. No maker suggested for either.
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Good idea, Jacob. I'll see if I can get ahold of some calipers. I can say for sure that it feels thinner both across and vertically than other violins I own or have played.
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Hi Jeffrey,
Thanks for the thoughts.
At this point my daughter is playing this violin. And doing nothing for the moment makes sense because the neck is actually thinner than most violins I've played and perhaps fits her hand better. But if she continues and is going to be playing this for a long while, we'll revisit the question.
The violin sounds great. But it's always tempting when someone says it can be even better.
Today's opinion was by an assistant in the shop; but the shop owner said much the same thing when he first laid eyes on the instrument when it was first set up after decades of disuse.
And you are right, the price quoted (including new board and bridge) suggested that a new graft would only be a few hundred more than the reset. And it was suggested the new graft would allow more flexibility in matching and maximizing the instrument.
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That makes sense. So it must be the join was just near invisible to me... and I wasn't expecting it to come off in a single piece...
thanks all.
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Perhaps my eyes played tricks on me, but I saw no seams.
The bottom had come loose, so when he came out of the shop I expected to see the fingerboard off and the nut still on the neck. Instead he handed me a single piece which I examined...
But, hey, perhaps I need new glasses.
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I would guess the neck resets are old. The violin is likely mid-18thc composite. Scroll graft. And visible shims both at the base of the heel and under the fingerboard.
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Interesting. The fingerboard of the violin in my avatar came loose and I saw it apart from the fiddle today... the nut and fingerboard are carved from a single bit of ebony.
So the question it, does it signify anything?
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I have a a fiddle (the one pictured in my avatar) that has a neck that has been set and reset several times it would seem from the shims and trimmed ebony crown.
My luthier was looking at it today and felt that it was slightly off center, angled toward bass side -- and that the fingerboard was carved so as to compensate for this slight deviation. But that in an ideal world I should have it reset to true; or to actually fit a new neck which would make it possible to address all the reset problems and perhaps easier to adjust the angle over the body (which is fairly low).
Question is: how does on decide on reset versus new? It could be that the neck is original to the modernization done back in the 19thc. But it's likely not "original" to the instrument. Which is a composite.
I can't afford either at the moment, but it's an instrument I plan on keeping.
Just thought perhaps the restorers here might have some thoughts.
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Question: are the nut and fingerboard usually discrete pieces of ebony? Or are they usually carved from a single piece?
Does it signify anything one way or the other?
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Writing as one such unsure beginner I would prefer it if there were proper criticism. In my professional career challenging debate was an essential part of getting to the right answer. But challenging the idea should not mean challenging the person.
Completely agree. I think it's become clear that what everyone -- on both sides of this ill-formed debate -- wants if for the criticism and debate to be free, but not personal.
As for those who think there's a yearning for a golden age... I've been a lurker, non-making, interested amateur for over a decade and can say with some authority that the tensions in this forum have been much worse at times in the past. And then the forum regroups. Carries on. As Jeffrey says, it's cyclical.
Compared to most forums on the internet the sense of community and comfort here is remarkable.
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Guy, I think I mentioned this to you several years ago:
Anyone who became interested in fiddles because they thought it offered a nice curmudgeonly environment has made a huge mistake.
At the last International Society of Violin and Bow Makers convention (the Entente), one of our most respected members, 80 + years old and a relentless joker, was up dancing on the dinner table.
One of the group’s recent presidents is a Harley enthusiast, who likes to come to the US for group rides.
These are a couple of very mild examples. Some of the most creative and bizarre hijinks I’ve ever seen were when some of our tradespeople got together, somewhat out of the public eye.
Formality and decorum in our business is partly real, and partly a facade.
David,
I take your point. And I am quite sure were we in company in a pub you'd find I'm not as stodgy as I may seem here.
But, from only my point of view, some of the "hi-jinks" here fall flat in the virtual world.
It probably seems that I'm suggesting all off-topic banter be eliminated. I don't mean to imply that. Sorry if that's how it has come across. I only mean it should be in proportion -- and careful not to overtake interesting threads to the point that they die...
Hill Bow: Tortoise Frog to Ebony
in The Pegbox
Posted
Thanks. I've had work done by both Yung Chin and John Aniano. It's been a while. I don't know if he's still there. Good idea.
--Guy