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Posts posted by Marsden

  1. Flyboy,

    Thanks as well!

    Although I can not accomplish the process that you are using, to see what the image you are looking at actually looks like.

    This violin is for sale at this time on German e-bay.

    The seller states that he has taken this violin to two different shops, and while the shop owners do not agree on the age or the origin of the violin, they do agree that it is made from pernambuco and that is far earlier than the Second World War. Apparently one thought it was French and the other German.

    I asked for pictures which he sent, and then asked if he minded if I posted them on a violin chat room, which he did not object to. I was not sure either if it is pernambuco, but I sure can not say that it isn't. I hoped to find some thoughts on the value of pernambuco as a violin wood, and indeed, if this truly is pernambuco. In favor of it being; the seller has a perfect record. Also, he does not seem to be a violin dealer, so this is a bit of a strange story to make up if you are not into violins. Most people do not know there is a wood called pernambuco.

    As I look at it, I can recalled some flamed pernambuco bows that I have seen that make me think that this could well be pernambuco, just in a larger format than I have seen before.

    Little did I realize how hard it was going to be to actually post the pictures.

    While I can see the sides and the back being pernambuco, the scroll and the neck are more of a question. It is not clear where the use of pernambuco might stop. Is the front also pernambuco??

    Take a look at that while I try to come up with a way to post the rest of these pictures - probably later tonight.


    Best wishes,


  2. AAARRGGHH! What a pain in the behind. These pictures are not really worth the wait, but I would sure like to figure this out!!

    Anyone have an idea what I am doing wrong here??

    I have jpg images that I have received throught e-mail. I have transfered them to my desk top. I click on the browse button where it says to add an attachment and locate and select the image on my desktop. I click the continue button and then, after some time, I am told that it must be a mp3 to upload. Is this correct so far?, and if so what do I do to get to what ever the mp3 requirement is?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.


  3. Justen,

    Thanks for the tips. When I try to send the image following the identification of it in the browse mode, I get a message that says that my upload must be .mp3?? I tried just changing the .jpg to .mp3, and did not receive the message, but also saw no picture appear..

    This is like identifying violins, no logic, just experience!

    I think I will go play some and come back to this later.

    Thanks again.


  4. Manfio,

    Your point about the weight sounds logical.

    I have some pictures in jpeg of a violin that is supposed to be made of Pernambuco prior to the Second World War. If someone could tell me how to post them, I think you might find them interesting. If it is Pernambuco, it is not bad looking.


  5. Steiner,

    Enjoyed your web page. Welcome to the forum.

    Would you know approximately how many violins Steiner made, and how many of his original violins are known today? I had heard some figures, but based on your material, I was pretty off base.



  6. Flyboy,

    I also find it hard at times to be sure what these terms exactly are, however, I have some images in my mind. Not being good at creating and transferring images on the computer screen, I will try some definitions. These might be easier for those that are busy to correct, than for them to do it all from scratch. I am not assuming these are correct, I just hope some of those that have made this a great thread will hone them. I do hope that some of them are close.

    Head - The entirety of the pegbox and the scroll.

    (Based on the picture below, is the "head" just the scroll?)

    Throat - The section between the pegbox and the start of the scroll.

    (Again, based on below, is the throat the wood area between the end of the pegbox and the scroll, or is it open air space between the pegbox and the scroll?)

    Fluting - Areas of carving that creates a rolled or rolling surface.

    Volute - Any of the turns of the spiral, or the spiral as a whole.

    Chamfer - This is the treatment of edges, in general it is an angling of an edge at 45 degrees, so that on a 90 degree corner, once chamfered would go from the flat surface to a 45 then flat and a second 45 to complete the (in total) 90 degree corner.

    Forehead or Comb - no clue I get the impression that this may be the portion of the scroll that would touch the table if the violin was placed on a table string side down..???

    (Again based on the picture below, is the comb the top of the scroll when the violin is hanging from the scroll or the top of the scroll when the violin is flat on a table?)

    Eye - The center point of the spiral from which the first volute initiates.

    Ear - I think this is the protrusion of the eye of the scroll when looked at from the front of the violin.

    My appreciation to all for a great thread.


  7. Jeffrey,

    I think I get a better appreciation for the process with every post you make.

    Clearly if none of the different items show similarities, the chance of this being the same maker are out the window.




    toolmarks (method),

    pegbox (and how it flows to the first turn of the scroll), the last cut (at the eye),


    and finish."

    I would love to hear a discussion of them all with this comparison opportunity, but the one that interestes me most is "tool marks."

    If you find the time, I, and I am sure many others, would appreciate your thoughts on what you see here, and how you

    see it.

    Best wishes,


  8. Jacob,

    Thank you.

    While I have been interested in Kulik, I have not found pictures of his work - one of the various reasons that I did not bid on this item.

    Again, thanks for looking,


  9. Jeffrey,

    I checked the materials I have that show works by Balestrieri, and see the same type of angled oval that you identified with this work.

    Therefore this must be a Balestrieri!!! Just joking!

    Could not an average maker, that makes his own scrolls, have a variance in consistency broad enough to show the variance seen here?


  10. Jeffrey,

    The one form Japes goes off at 45 degrees, and the one that you put up is up and down.

    Anything over 5% is significant against a sample size of 30 or more. With a sample size of two, it is not so important. That is indeed where experience becomes important.

    Do you mean that a "school" generally has the same angle on the volute?


  11. David,

    I agree, I did a quick check of the ratio of throat width to pegbox length and got a variance of about 20%. This would be significant, except we do not know what the standard deviation of any given maker is. I was checking the ratio when you posted to be sure my eyes were not playing tricks on me. At the same time, without a given idea as to the expected standard deviation, this information would not rule out, or lessen the chance of the same maker. (Again not even thinking for a second that these are, just how do these scrolls show that they are not?)


  12. Thank you Michael. If I had tried to do that I "might" have been able to carry it off.

    I must admit, I still do not see that much difference.

    Here is what I see.

    The photo of Japes' is at a slight angle that distorts the thickness of the pegbox, and the "hook?" between the neck and the carved back of the pegbox. Even with this distortion, the pegbox still looks thicker, and the "hook" a little less sharp.

    The scroll itself looks too close to call. I think the one on Japes' looks like a more perfect spiral, but if the same maker made three in a row, I am not sure you would not see the difference we are seeing here. Especially if he was not big on scrolls to begin with.

    The rise of the scroll from the pegbox (the throat?), starts further forward on Japes'. But not that much, is this minor variant significant?

    I would truly feel that these could be from the same maker - not that I am saying they are, just that I can not say that they are not. Again, if a maker was not that concerned about the scroll, compared to the body of the instrument and hense the sound, are these not possible to have come from the same hand based on what is seen here?

    This is how I see this. Enlighten me who will.



  13. Sorry that I lack the expertise for this, but can anyone here combine the two images of the heads so that they can be looked at side by side? I find them too close to tell differences when scrolling back and forth. If this is possible, it might give a more interesting comparison for discussion.



  14. Jeffrey,

    About, maybe two years ago, there was a Dutch dealer that was selling on ebay. At one point he had two or three older Dutch violin that he was selling. I research them a little at the time, and I was of the opinion that they definitely looked like what was shown on the Dutch Violin Page. They all had initial prices higher than my bid limit, and while I had interest in them, since our discussions in Ann Arbor, not so much that I was seriously pursuing any. I also believe that one of these on e-bay had tight double purfling similar to the violin that Jakes shows.

    Best wishes,


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