Claire

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I know it sounds silly and you're probably thinking I'm schizophrenic or something, but when I play one of my violins, an old German one, I could swear I hear people talking. Not words or anything, but just like a low mumbling like they'd be in the next room. Over time I've just got used to it, but sometimes I just have to stop and check there's no-one around.Maybe a past owner coming to check up on me? :-) Or maybe just something to do with the harmonics of the instrument.It's really off-putting.

: I have a Voirin bow which I like using very much. Is it possible for a bow maker to copy a bow so it feels and responds the same as the original? thanks

I have a Voirin bow which I like using very much. Is it possible for a bow maker to copy a bow so it feels and responds the same as the original? thanks

: I have an old (100 years) Strad copy that has developed a very small but long : crack over the bassbar. I have taken it to a luthier who said the it was most definately : not worth the expense to repair it. It basically has not value, especially like it is now. : The sound deteriored noticeably when this happened. : I have another instrument, but I hate to see this violin sitting in the corner and not : being restored in some way to make it at least a backup. Is there someway or something : that I could do myself to repair it or at least make it playable again? The luthier didn't : give me a monetary figure for the repair--it was sort of like "you don't want to know : how much". : Thanks for any suggestions anyone might have. : Claire

I have an old (100 years) Strad copy that has developed a very small but long crack over the bassbar. I have taken it to a luthier who said the it was most definately not worth the expense to repair it. It basically has not value, especially like it is now. The sound deteriored noticeably when this happened. I have another instrument, but I hate to see this violin sitting in the corner and not being restored in some way to make it at least a backup. Is there someway or something that I could do myself to repair it or at least make it playable again? The luthier didn't give me a monetary figure for the repair--it was sort of like "you don't want to know how much". Thanks for any suggestions anyone might have. Claire

Well, I finally got around to putting on my new set of Obligato strings today. I really like the A, D and G string, but the E string broke as I was putting in on, so I can't compare it to the E string that I was using--the gold Wondertone. What a bummer--it was even pretty-- a nice gold color (not that it really matters--I just thought it looked kind of jazzy). To those of you who have tried them, how does the E string compare to the Wondertone or the Dominant E string. I'm not sure it is worth trying to get another if it is just going to break so easily. The other strings sound really nice, much smoother than the Dominants I have been using. I have to see how long they last and how they hold up to the heat and humidity here in Virginia.

: :Dear Caren, : : You sure can have a lot of sympathy from me. : That is a real dilemma.It sounds like you : are experiencing a mental block, no suprise : due to the added pressure of the competition. : The best thing to do might be to put it away : for a few days. : Yesterday my violin teacher let my play a piece : while walking to the rythm. Start walking as : fast as the tempo goes, then start to play when you have : your walking tempo down. This helped me for one thing : because I was so busy with my feet that I stopped : worrying about my fingers, and they did their : own thing automatically. : To get over a mental block, Glen Gould once played : a piece while the TV and the radio were on full : blast- so he couldn't hear himself making mistakes.. : One book suggestion which adresses the problem : of mental blocks ect.: The Inner Game of Music. : (Forgot the author) : Good luck, and tell us how it went! : Melinda I sympathize also. Tough piece to memorize. My daughter has been working on this piece, but didn't have to memorize it. The book, "The Inner Game of Music" was also recomended to me after I totally bombed in my very first recital. I had only been playing for three months at the time which was most likely too soon to try, but my teacher wanted me to give it a shot. After that, I promised myself I would be much more prepared for a recital than I was for that one. "Inner Game" is written by Barry Green and Timothy Gallwey and published by Doubleday. I ordered it from Barnes and Noble. The isbn is 0-385-23126-1. It has a lot of discussion on the mental aspects of performing. Good luck--I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, except when I am practicing, of course. Claire :

: :Dear Caren, : : You sure can have a lot of sympathy from me. : That is a real dilemma.It sounds like you : are experiencing a mental block, no suprise : due to the added pressure of the competition. : The best thing to do might be to put it away : for a few days. : Yesterday my violin teacher let my play a piece : while walking to the rythm. Start walking as : fast as the tempo goes, then start to play when you have : your walking tempo down. This helped me for one thing : because I was so busy with my feet that I stopped : worrying about my fingers, and they did their : own thing automatically. : To get over a mental block, Glen Gould once played : a piece while the TV and the radio were on full : blast- so he couldn't hear himself making mistakes.. : One book suggestion which adresses the problem : of mental blocks ect.: The Inner Game of Music. : (Forgot the author) : Good luck, and tell us how it went! : Melinda I sympathize also. Tough piece to memorize. My daughter has been working on this piece, but didn't have to memorize it. The book, "The Inner Game of Music" was also recomended to me after I totally bombed in my very first recital. I had only been playing for three months at the time which was most likely too soon to try, but my teacher wanted me to give it a shot. After that, I promised myself I would be much more prepared for a recital than I was for that one. "Inner Game" is written by Barry Green and Timothy Gallwey and published by Doubleday. I ordered it from Barnes and Noble. The isbn is 0-385-23126-1. It has a lot of discussion on the mental aspects of performing. Good luck--I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, except when I am practicing, of course. Claire :

: :Dear Caren, : : You sure can have a lot of sympathy from me. : That is a real dilemma.It sounds like you : are experiencing a mental block, no suprise : due to the added pressure of the competition. : The best thing to do might be to put it away : for a few days. : Yesterday my violin teacher let my play a piece : while walking to the rythm. Start walking as : fast as the tempo goes, then start to play when you have : your walking tempo down. This helped me for one thing : because I was so busy with my feet that I stopped : worrying about my fingers, and they did their : own thing automatically. : To get over a mental block, Glen Gould once played : a piece while the TV and the radio were on full : blast- so he couldn't hear himself making mistakes.. : One book suggestion which adresses the problem : of mental blocks ect.: The Inner Game of Music. : (Forgot the author) : Good luck, and tell us how it went! : Melinda I sympathize also. Tough piece to memorize. My daughter has been working on this piece, but didn't have to memorize it. The book, "The Inner Game of Music" was also recomended to me after I totally bombed in my very first recital. I had only been playing for three months at the time which was most likely too soon to try, but my teacher wanted me to give it a shot. After that, I promised myself I would be much more prepared for a recital than I was for that one. "Inner Game" is written by Barry Green and Timothy Gallwey and published by Doubleday. I ordered it from Barnes and Noble. The isbn is 0-385-23126-1. It has a lot of discussion on the mental aspects of performing. Good luck--I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, except when I am practicing, of course. Claire :

: Personally, my theory is kids have less "mental clutter" than adults, thus less to filter out and more ease in learning. How many of our children when they practice, have to push out thoughts of "Da Boss", our work, the mortgage payments, the car needs a tune up, "oh geez! I forgot to make little Johnny's dentist appointment, Eeek! we are out of milk, gotta run to the store, blah, blah, blah. Yep, less brain clutter with the kids, that's my theory My vote is with Elaine's theory!! Claire : : : : cognitive psychology that it is actually NOT : : : than proven that children learn foreign languages : : : much better that adults- the word they used was myth! : : : (J. Anderson, introduction to cognitive psychology) : : : And as far as music learning : : : goes, there are still way too little research on the : : : concrete topic of learning instruments, many of the : : : current "truths" being borowed from general theories : : : of developmental psychology. As as far as research in : : : gereral goes, I am learning to be very critical to : : : any findings, as the methodes often leave a lot to : : : desire. (all the sweet little tricks one can play with : : : statistics for example.) And I wonder just how one : : : can scientifically compare children and teens who have the time and energy : : : to pratice hours and hours a day after school with : : : adults who have to work and raise a family ect - : : : the conditions are much different! And much of : : : performance has to do with expecations and beliefs: : : : for example, one study showed that elderly persons : : : who had negative beliefs about intellectual performance : : : in old age actually performed worse in tests compared : : : with elderly adults who had a positive attitude towards : : : intellectual performace in old age. : : : So as far as violin goes- if your teacher or you yourself : : : are expecting you to do worse because after all, you : : : are "only" an adult beginner, chances are you will. : : : I always looked for teachers who demanded just as much : : : of me as of the kids. : : : : : : As far as my everyday experiece goes, I know of professional : : : violinist and cellists who didn't start until they were : : : 16. And like you observed in your music school: At : : : my first recital I as a 22-year old had actually surpassed (in 6 months) : : : ALL of the other kids who had started earlier than I- : : : and the most advanced students were two "adult learners". : : : At the next music school I experienced more or less : : : the same thing. : : : Of course there are "Wunderkinder" who after four years : : : are playing Mozart and Beethoven like the pros, but : : : if you stick to the rest of us "average" people, like : : : you said: most of the kids I have seen are just as "mediocre" as the : : : adults if not more so. My current violin teacher says : : : that all of her adult learners have learned faster : : : than her kids up till now! : : : And personally, if I had started as a kid, I probably : : : would have hated it and wouldn't be playing at all!

: Greg, : I am a 37 year old that at 36 decided to return to : the violin after a 23yr lay off. Because it had been : so long, and I had not really gained a lot of skill : during my youth, I decided to find a teacher. The : one I ended up with is primarily a Suzuki instructor, : but she also teaches traditional fiddling as well. : We have pretty much followed the Suzuki method with : the following exceptions. My instructor has used : supplimental technical exercizes such as Shradick, : Stitts and Wolfhart (I hope I'm spelling these correct, : sorry ADean, I don't have my copies in front of me), : along with three octave scales with double stops : and chromatics. The Suzuki method seems to use the : repertoire as technical studies, but this may not : be enough. I have really enjoyed working through : the Suzuki repertoire, and really like the way the : pieces progress in difficulty. : The other exception is that I do not participate in the : group lessons or solo days. I actually somewhat resent : this. I think anyone, regardless of age, should be able : to particpate in these based on where they are at in the : Suzuki program, not based on their age. My instructor, : however, make the case that these programs really are for : children, and the presence of adults would be too : intimidating. She also makes the case that adults : have opportunities not open to children, such as : playing in a community orchestra, or going away : for a week to a music camp. I don't buy any of this. An : adult that has not yet gained the skill necessary to : play in an orchestra has no performance opportunities, : and thus does not get used to what if feels like to : play in front of an audience, no matter how terrible : one may sound. And I disagree that children will feel : intimidated, quite the opposite, it is the adult who : feels intimidated. In general, I really love my : instructor, she is patient, encouraging, and great : with adults, but I disagree with her on this one : issue. I seem to remember a story from someone on : this board, perhaps from Elaine P., about performing : in her first recital as an adult with a group of : children. I don't know if it was through the Suzuki : program, but I think performing frequently beginning : at the earliest stages of learing an instrument : is important at any age. : Tina My teacher really dislikes the Suzuki method, and if I happen to show him a piece I would like to play out of my daughters old Suzuki book that I would like to play, he will let me work on it but only after he changes the bowing and fingering to suit him. The really neat thing that students have available here though, is that my teachers conducts an adults only beginner sting ensemble, which other teacher's students also participate in. Perhaps someone in your area could try to get such a group going. We all really like it as it gives us the change to learn the skills needed to play in a group and follow a conductor, while learning different music than we would play in our lessons. We do pay the teacher a fee for each nine/ten week session. It seems to work well. He also has a more advanced string ensemble that we can "graduate" to when our ability to play increases. Sorry if this messeage is a little disjointed--I am on a business trip and the screen on the computer I am using is really too small for me to see well. I am really anxious to get back to playing my violin again, especially after the earlier posts about layoffs from practice. Claire

: Claire, : Here are some Irish music sites. At three of them, you can download music free. Last time I put this info up on this board, Admin removed my post with 24 hours. I don't think any of this traditional Celtic stuff is copyrighted, but the rapid disappearance of my last post on this subject makes me wonder? : Anyway, try these: : - www.celticmusic.com/cgi-bin/~celticmusic/tunes.pl : - darsie.ucdavis.edu/music/tuneweb/ : - members.aol.com/boynehunt/alpha.html : - celtic.stanford.edu/ceolas.html : DJ Thanks for the sites to check out, DJ and Tina. Claire

Wow! This group sounds like fun--I want to play last chair second-- I wanna--I wanna. (Less pressure and you can usually hide behind someone else if you lose your place in the music. I haven't learned how to fake bowing well when this happens.) I have a violin that is german made from Potters in DC--the student model--Wilhelm Klier-- and a backup strad copy from around the 1890s. Currently I am working on the Vivaldi Concerto in A Minor (first movement) and Mozart's Rondo in D and Boccherini's Sonate for violin and cello. These are my solo pieces. The ensemble is working on Telemann's Violin Concerto in G (three movements) and Concerto a 4 (three movements), Scarlatti's Overture to "La Rosaura", Purcell's Rondeau, Handle's Eight Operatic Pieces (dummed down), Elgar's Sarabande and Dance Suite Prelude. My teacher, I am sure, won't have any Irish Fiddle Music--I'd love to play some so I will have to do that with you guys--please tell my what some of it is and where to find it. I'll meet you all at Janie's. I can bring my two golden retrievers-- they can make for general mayhem and steal the sheet music and play keep away with it. They can also be taught to howl at appropriate places in the music. See you there! Claire

: Hi Elaine C. I was surprized to see another "Elaine" on the board. I guess we better post our last initials or we'll drive everyone batty wondering who is who. I'm 42 and been at it 3 1/2 years, so it could get confusing! I'm taking my first trek into fiddle music shortly. I met a wonderful woman fiddler who lives in Colorado and posts here from time to time. We're starting "video-fiddle lessons." Yeah, kinda techno, but I can't afford to fly to CO from NC once a week and I have a regular teacher for classical/pop type music. I'm also going to Mark O'Connor's fiddle camp this August, so I may hang up my Handel by the time this is over! Not really! I love classical and fiddle both. If I don't go nuts trying to keep the two styles separate that is Welcome to the board! Oh, I saw your e-mail address below and will drop you a personal note too. Happy fiddling! Me too--I'll be there! Actually, I am in a string ensemble composed entirely of adult beginners and we do have a lot of fun, but work *very hard* at the music. My teacher is the conductor, but others in the group take lessons from other teachers, and some do not take lessons at all--they are trying to learn on their own with just the ensemble as instruction. Our group is called From Scratch and we will be giving a concert in May (We've been working on the music since September--that should give you some idea of where we are. We will be playing Scarlatti (sp?), Teleman, Vivaldi, Purcell, Elgar, and maybe Shostikovich (sp?). I asked some of the older members of the group who would actually come to a concert like this and his response was "there is more of us than them (audience)--usually family members and anyone else you can bribe into showing up! It will be good experience at any rate. In the fall I am joining a community orchestra in a nearby town. The one in my own city is *way* too sophiscated. Many, many good people do not get into it. I bet we would all have an absolute blast if we could find a way to get together! claire

: Hello! : When I as a twenty-two year old started learning the : violin, I got quite a few funny looks and snide remarks. : The violin maker said I was too old. A Violist said I : would never learn to play more than little pieces which : I could play with good friends. A teenage cellist said: : Is it still worth it at that ager? : Well, almost six years later I am still learning and loving it. : Through determination and hard work I get better all the : time. But sometimes I think: if I had just started : earlier, I'd get this darn run....have a better vibrato.. : ...wouldn't have as much trouble with this bowing... : : Who else has been told or has wondered if they were : too old to learn the violin properly? : Who has had good or bad experiences with adult learners : playing the violin for the first time? : Which persons also started learning the violin after : childhood, and how are they doing? : I am interested in your comments, experiences ect! : M.Alice It seems as if there are many of us *late bloomers* here on this board! I didn't start lessons until I was 47, and have been playing for three years now--and thoroughly taken by the beauty of mystery of playing the violin. I totally fell in love with it. My daughter actually got me started with it--she wanted us to play together and was willing to be patient enough to wait for me to advance enough. Ironically, when we were looking for a teacher for my daughter many years ago--we were told that at age 12, she was too old and refused to be accepted by a teacher. We quickly found another and she is still playing in a community orchestra and string ensemble (and still taking lessons). You will find that there is a delightful group of supportive adult beginners here. I know I have. Welcome. Claire

: Claire, In my experience, even soundposts that appear to be in the proper position can be too far in (or too far out) for the particular instrument. Often you cannot get a luthier to move the post to the optimum spot for sound - some are so "stuck" on the proper geographical position. : The slot in the soundpost is from the point of the S-shaped soundpost-setting tool, and appears on any post set with one of those setters. : The Sacconi tail"gut" is synthetic (probably nylon) with threads at both ends and a mettal knob on each set of threads. To put it in the tailpiece, you remove one of the knobs and thread the "gut" through the holes in the tailpiece and then replace the knob. Then you adjust the knobs to get the length of gut you want over the endpin (endpeg). : Andy Andy, Glen and others: Thanks for all the advice. I did figure out how to adjust the tailpiece on the Strad copy and also adjusted the bridge slightly and put new strings on it. It *does* sound better! I didn't get it exactly to the rule of sixths measurements, but really close (the sacconi was old and I could only adjust one side). It will probably sound even better after the new strings settle in. Glen: I'll check the soundpost and see how it is--thanks for the info. Oh yes, Dave, it may still be a mediocre instrument, but now it is a somewhat better sounding mediocre instrument--and free to boot since it was given to me. I usually only use it as a backup. I am hesitant to try to adjust my better violin. I am afraid that the soundpost might collapse--is this a possiblility when you remove the strings and bridge? Thanks again. Claire

: Claire, I suspect that the "boxy" sound of your Strad copy violin is due to the soundpost being "too far in" from the E string side. Take a look in that f-hole and see if that is the case. : Be careful, because if the soundpost is long enough to fit there when the strings are loosened, it will damage the violin if you move it toward the E-string. You may need a shorter soundpost. : If this is one of your problems, it will not be improved by changing the string afterlengths between the bridge and tailpiece. Once you eliminate this problem, however, additional improvements are possible with the "rule of sixths." At least that has been my experience. : Andy Andy: I looked at both of my violins and it seems to me that they are both in about the same position, not that far in. The sound posts also has a small slash in them--is this normal? The measurements on the Strad copy is 5mm off the rule of sixths and the other violin's measurements are 327/43. Even if I get the Sacconi, which Glen mentioned how do I go about changing it? I don't want to sound stupid, but from the picture in Shar, I couldn't see how it worked. Thanks for your suggestions. Claire

Having read the messages on this board concerning the rule of sixths, I measured my two violins and neither has this ratio of afterstring length to string length before the bridge. I was wondering if this adjustment is something I can do or if I would have to take my violins to a luthier to have it done. If I can indeed try it, could someone please explain how to go about adjusting the tailpiece? Do you feel that it is worth trying? One violin already has good tone. The older one (a Strad copy from the turn of the century is described by my teacher as boxy and violish sounding--I think it sounds rather hollow). Thanks in advance. Claire

Has anyone tried the new Obligato strings by Pirastro? If so, inquiring minds would like to know what you think of them and how they compare to dominants and other popular strings. Claire

My new violin came with Dominants also. I am still using them, but I think they sound a little harsh also. Being a beginner, I am not sure about the various sounds (warm, bright, etc.), but I would like mine to sound not quite so *loud*. On the other hand, perhaps the loudness is just *projection* that I hvae heard eveyone writing of instead of *loudness*. I have a Wilhelm Kleir violin from Potter's which is their upscale student violin. I really, really like it, but would like to perhaps *warm* the tone up a bit--more mellow maybe? Any thoughts? TIA Claire

Thanks for all of your suggestions. I don't feel so discouraged now. I guess I just want to get as far as I possible can in the shortest amount of time since I am so much older than even the usual adult beginner (I won't give specifics, but I passed a big milestone last year). I have a goal of playing (well, I hope) in a community orchestra and maybe a beginner chamber music group. There is NO possiblility of anything more than that that I could imaging in my wildest dreams. But I happy with what I hope to achieve. It's comforting to know that this is a common experience. Claire

I found the score to Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness a while ago on Eric Agnews Pumpkins page. For some reason unknown to me I can't get back there so if you can't get there either then try e-mailing me and I will gladly send it to you.

Even "genius" isn't "perfect." Perlman is, after all a mere mortal! Perhaps we expect too much from the virtuosos of the world and don't allow them the privilege of "having an off night?" Granted, the "Perlman's" of the world are 'professional' and we as consumers pay dearly for the opportunity to experience their professionalism, but again, everyone has an off night....